What’s the best explanation for the origin of complex life? And while skepticism is healthy, can perpetual skepticism prevent us from moving closer to the truth? On a new episode of ID the Future, enjoy the second half of a stimulating conversation between philosopher of science Stephen Meyer and historian of science and Skeptic Magazine founding editor Michael Shermer. The conversation was hosted by comedian and podcaster Bryan Callen on The Bryan Callen Show. 

In Part 2, Meyer and Shermer address where they think complex life comes from. For Shermer, it’s an interplay between matter and energy through some evolutionary process. But as Meyer points out, the highly ordered codes and complex biological systems we see at the heart of life are not the type of thing that results from an unguided evolutionary process.

They also discuss the mind-body problem, how the mind or consciousness interacts with the physical world. Which brings up the subject of mathematics. Meyer calls math mind-independent. We discover it, we don’t invent it. And it’s conceptual, not a physical material thing. Which begs the question: in what mind was it conceptualized, if not ours? The pair also debate the merits of skepticism itself. “I don’t know” is a reasonable position to take, but is that a permanent position? Does one have to be perpetually skeptical, or is it possible to move toward the truth and even reach it? 

Download the podcast or listen to it here. This is Part 2 of a two-part conversation. Listen to Part 1!

Dig Deeper

• We are grateful to the producers of The Bryan Callen Show for permission to share this exchange. Check out more from Bryan Callen at his YouTube channel.
• Want more Meyer? In this interview, he joins UC San Diego physicist Dr. Brian Keating to discuss the best explanations for the origin of life and the universe: